“Where?”
[Lachlan Skollson] He lets out a sigh, “There on tha fucking ground eaten his rice and shite like what all Chinamen do.”
[Bai Chou] Bai sighed, finishing off the last of the Puu Puu platter…a nice mix of stuffed fried crab, cheese sticks, wings, pork on a stick…enough to fill a guy up as he chunked the bag into the bin near him. He grimaced as he braced himself and started to stiffly rise like he had suddenly gone gimp as of late or become an old man…unaware of two Norsemen’s distant relations heading towards him.
[Kemp Oates] Tall as he had gotten, it wasn’t hard to spot him over the tops of those making a wide berth around them. A long lean 6’4″ with still a couple years possible growth to him. A grimace slipped across his face before it was hidden and he muttered to Lachlan.
“Don’t tell Tris about him. I don’t even want to think about one of them dropping the damned soap.”
With that his shoulders squared and he started towards Bai again. Muttering once more to Lachlan.
“It’s your show man, ya seen it. Playing telephone will just fuck it up, so ya gotta talk to him and I’ll try to keep my big ass mouth closed.”
[Lachlan Skollson] “Tris? Don’t think I know a Tris. Whose that?” The Eagle’s Rotagar forces Lachlan to have to look up as he was several inches short than Kemp, standing at like 5’10. Not as impressive on the intimidation scale of appearances, but the two together looked like two hoodlums out to break knees, possibly Bai’s.
At the mention of Kemp keeping his mouth shut, it makes Lachlan laugh, “Right, then.” He takes the first steps to approach Bai, letting out a whistle to snare his attention. “Hey, Buy-A-Cow, yer overdue on yer squatter’s rent fer street corners, time tae pay up.”
[Kemp Oates] “Heh, if ya don’t know him, then ya won’t get what I mean.”
Clamping his mouth shut as Lachlan drew attention their way. Already he was scanning the faces of those between them and Bai. Muttering under his breath.
“Buy a cow….heh….”
[Bai Chou] Bai stiffens slightly, the blue eyes turning to ice daggers as he looked to Lachlan..noticing Kemp in tow as well as for a moment, he thinks to reach for his knife…before letting his hands drop back and instead take occupancy in his pockets. He turns slowly and waits before he speaks up.
“…I really don’t want a fight out here and I’m in a lot of pain to start trying to run. So…I’m going to simply ask…what do you want?”
Two Gets coming from their territory to your own usually meant trouble….mark the fact that both of them are Fools and it was guaranteed they were up to no good. He waited, not going to make the first move in this dance of words.
[Lachlan Skollson] Lachlan didn’t have a territory to call his own; he was just getting lumped in with the Eagles for the sheer fact that he was a Fenrir. This had proven so when he’d picked a fight with one of the Hounds.
“Ain’t ‘ere tae pick a fight ‘less ye really want us tae, ‘Cow,” he jerks his head back to Kemp and then looks at the Uktena. “He’s along fer tha ride at tha moment. Need tae chat ‘boot that voodoo mojo magic ye do wi’ spirits. Some shite goin’ on that ye might be able tae explain.”
[Kemp Oates] His green eyes narrowed ever so slightly with the attitude and faint movement. Chin slowly lifting before he broke his word of silence almost as soon as he had vowed it.
“Well fuckme green. It’s good to see you too Baaacheew.”
Mutilating the name.
“And yes, sure is a nice day compared to how it has been. What’s that?”
Cupping his hand around his ear.
“Well yes, it is an honor to get together like this. And sure, while I think white is a pussy color, it works for ya.”
[Bai Chou] He listens for a moment, stance no longer tensing as he finally just nods, trying to ignore Kemp’s attempts to pick a fight.
“…let’s talk in my office.”
He starts to walk towards one of the alleys between the restaurants…still moving stiffly. Either he had hid a pole between his leg or had managed to damage himself recently…he definitely hadn’t been walking funny at the last moot. He found something to makeshift into a chair, gritting his teeth slightly as he sat down and then looked to them and waited.
[Kemp Oates] He grimaced behind the small Garou’s back. The way Bai was walking, he didn’t even like where his mind went.
“Awfuckme.”
Blinking and adding quickly.
“That was figurative. Not literally. Looks like ya done been at that, only as heavy receiver. Shit, seen ducks walk better. Which kinda goes with that. I mean. Duck…fuck..fuck a duck..ya don’t quack do ya?”
[Lachlan Skollson] “Kemp, what happened tae keepin’ yer trap shut? I knew I should’ve be ye money on it. Ye can’t keep it closed fer two seconds.” He shakes his head, also noting the way Bai had started to walk, while the urge to comment had been there he is finding it hard to not say anything, though Lachlan does manage a snicker.
“Intae tha man’s office.” He jerks his head at the other Fenrir, following into the alley with a glance around to check his surroundings. He regards Bai with a critical eye. “What got a hold o’ yer arse? A man or a monster?”
[Kemp Oates] Now that just made a wide smile blossom across his face as his lips peeled back, eyes crinkling at the corners, sharp white canines showing in the wide smile.
“Ya talk about me. And exactly what does in my office mean? Think about it man.”
Grimacing with a few duck steps, stiff legged, one hand going to his ass like trying to hold shit in.
[Bai Chou] “….are the two of you done?”
He waited for a moment before speaking, resting his chin on his knuckles as he spoke, almost like the great thinker.
“I went Shadow recently…scoping out the trouble in Chinatown…let’s just say…shit is worse here then I initially thought. Fuck the pattern spiders that have been showing up…there’s something far far fucking worse on the other side and it was more then happy to claw my ass before I could bug the fuck out.”
[Kemp Oates] His lower lip sucked in as he bit down on it hard enough to taste blood. Turning to look back the way they came as a small tremor quaked through his shoulders. Soon another one shook his lean body. One hand lifting to his face with his back still to the others.
[Lachlan Skollson] Lachlan clears his throat, bringing a fist up to his mouth as he coughs to keep from laughing. He tries to look serious, but Kemp wasn’t helping in that department. When Bai spoke up, he swings his gaze to the Chinaman and grunts.
“Bronzeville, over Valentine’s Day, lots o’ Wyrm activity there in tha umbra. Found a pile o’ dead wyrm hounds, whole pack, and it looked like one Crinos…” holds up a single index finger, “jus’ one wiped ‘em all out. Lil’ Throat Rippa says she fought a wyrm hound and stuck its skull up on tha wyrm pole at tha caern, but I think her incident is unrelated tae what I found. There’s no way that lil’ Fianna cunt would’ve slay an entire pack. She’d be orgasmin’ her fucking praise on everybody.”
He lets out a small snort, frowning, “There’s a red mist that hangs on tha floor, ye breath it in and it spurns one ta get angry. Has tae be wyrm related givin’ tha area, it seems tae be headin’ east. There’s also some sort o’ dead zone that I came across where it held tha red smoke at bay, no spirits lived in this area. And when I crossed o’er tae tha realm from that deadzone, it took me four fucking hours tae crawl through tha Gauntlet. Dead zone seems tae spread East like it’s goin’ towards Cabrini-Green. Could be more parts o’ tha umbra afflicted in different area o’ tha city,”
[AnneMarie Hoch] The Metis. The silent one. She’s been called many things, but those two are the ones that always are first. She joins the boys in the Alleyway, having paused for something or another along the way, checked in with location afterwards.
If Bai Chou was nervous before, he now has Two Eagles, Three Fenrir, in attendance to this little meeting. She nudges Kemps shoulder with her own, then simply leans long form against the alley wall, and listens.
[Bai Chou] He nods before he spoke again, taking in the information, processing it before spewing it back out.
“…here in Chinatown…I came across a nice little Weaver nest…its thick…the Weaver has set-up camp right here in the middle of my turf. They have Strand-Spiders watching the place…the biggest, baddest of the damn Queen Bitch’s army on the rise. But…I think I have an inclination as to who took out your hounds you’re talking about.”
He sighs, looking up at them…pausing when he notices AnneMarie…but continues.
“…there’s something here…that bears the form of us in Crinos…there’s just a few key differences. It has no hair…its body looks like steel. And…its voice…speaks like a Weaver spirit. I’m going to let that sink in before I elaborate because I already know what the thing is…”
[Kemp Oates] “What the fuck, a mechanical Crinos?”
Clearing his throat as he managed to get his mirth under control for the moment. Turning back with a nod to his packmate.
[Lachlan Skollson] Lachlan folds his arms across his chest, rubbing gloved fingers across his clean-shaven jaw. He looks over to Annemarie with a nod of his head and a wink to the Metis. His features then pull into a deeper frown, dropping his arms to his sides.
“Ye bloody tellin’ me a mechanical Crinos is what tore’em up?” echoing Kemp’s assumption. “If’n tha Weaver’s gotten stronger ‘ere, then She must be tryin’ tae set up shop in other parts, explains why tha Gauntlet was so thick.”
[Bai Chou] “Which is why you got the Wyrm building up forces too in other parts of the city because they’re getting pushed back. The two don’t always play nice to gether.
[Bai Chou] (Still posting..that was a hiccup.)
[Kemp Oates] “Beats the shit out of me. This is the Theurge, not me.”
Jerking his head towards Bai as he speaks. Green eyes narrowing.
“So you’re saying it is mechanical?”
[Bai Chou] “Now….I’m pretty sure you guys are familiar with Spirals…or at least the story. And how some fall to the Wyrm and dance the spiral blah blah blah blah blah.”
He straightens again, hissing at the stiff pain as he elaborates.
“Well…just like humans can turn into fomori and Garou can turn willy nilly Spiralish…there something that can happen to those too attuned to the Bitch. They’re called drones…and they’re a pain in the ass. Drones are completely in-synch to the Weaver’s whims…an extension. And it doesn’t mean they are necessaringly mechanical so much as reborn under her ways. So..it means…it has the Weaver’s tricks to its disposal and in general will be a tough shit to beat. But I’m more then betting..that is her little weapon..her new spearhead or general. But…this thing can be as equally tough as a BSD…perhaps moreso because of her toys. Not to mention he’ll be backed up by the Strand Spiders and any other pattern spirits it needs to throw at us.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] A brow arches, slightly. She says nothing though (big shock there), and there is only a glance toward the boys and back to Bai Chou. She ignores the thinly veiled insult to their intelligence, and merely listens to the rest.
Interesting.
[Lachlan Skollson] “So what do we do? Granted I’m all fer anything tae take out tha bloody wyrm, but it’ll unbalance shite in tha city and make it hard fer us tae cross over in tha umbra if She nails everything down.”
He turns to look at Kemp and Annemarie, “Any ideas?”
[Kemp Oates] “Who me?”
Blinking wide eyed and as innocent as he could.
“I’m still trying to figure out what a spiral is.”
[Lachlan Skollson] “….bloody Americans.”
[Susie Siddle] Susie had come to Chinatown on an errand for Will and had ended up on a minishopping spree. She had a hard time finding some of his favorite foods at the local grocery store, but all kinds of ‘unusual’ things could be found in Chinatown. Especially the creepy-crawly kinds of things Will preferred to sprinkle on his meal. She had gotten used to it by now but watching him eat was unpleasant at times.
She had gotten a few nice deals though, a new set of silk komino robes to lounge around in and some beautifully enameled hair combs and a lovely tea service. Bags of her spoils were hung over each slender arm, keeping her balanced as she walked.
She looked like just about like any tourist in the area. She was fashionably dressed in a tasteful creamy suede ensemble, from her boots to her jacket, the only splash of color the jade green blouse tucked neatly into the calf length skirt. Jewelry was minimal, a pair of silver studs in her ears, a silver chain with a stylized raven pendant, and a smal sive and diamond promise ring. Her reddish hair was braided back out of her face, giving her the overall impression of a naughty librarian, right down to the glasses which were slightly tinted.
She moved with a confidant step and a natural grace, crossing the busy street, dodging traffic and pedestrians alike. She stopped at a noodle shop and placed her order, speaking Chinese with the proprietor, though hers was by no means fluent. She paid for her order and found a spot to lean, adjusting her bags so she could eat. She managed the chopsticks like a pro and was soon slurping noodles contently.
[Bai Chou] “…hitting either will unbalance the city….which is why…I’m planning on beseeching a higher source. Either case though, I suggest we get ready to plan on a raid…on both sides. I know where the heart is located…so hitting the Weaver is going to be somewhat easier. As for the Wyrm…well…that’s going to be a bit harder. We might have to just take one at a time. I know we weakened one side with the raids as of recent…so its not as big a threat…yet. But the Bitch is going out of control and it needs to be stomped. My main worry…is that his heart…just part of an interconnected web…that if each portion is getting its own source. It will make it that much harder.”
[Lachlan Skollson] “I know he’s a condenscendin’ lil’ bastard fer a Chinaman, but he also got fucked up tha arse. Might want tae cut’em some slack. Man’s got tae get his bread and butta some how.”
Nostrils flaring out as he cuffs out a hot breath of air, glancing back at the Uktena, “We ain’t that bloody stupid, Buy-a-Cow. Sounds loike ye’ll have tae organize them soft-bellies at tha Caern tae handle it if’n yer wantin’ an army tae take out both sides.”
He glances back at the other two Fenrir, “Eagles left tha caern, but I’ve never known a Fenrir tae simply back down from a fight. If’n this is something we as a tribe can handle, I loike tae hit it, but if it involves others, ye goin’ tae need help. Yer call on where ye want tae stand in this issue. Eventually, it’ll come fer yer turf and hit ye hard.”
[Kemp Oates] He was silent, sharing a look with AM. There was a lot of WE talk going on and right now, the Eagles weren’t part of the local WE.
“Well that’s the thing. We ain’t exactly the golden boys. Be plenty of them mewing mealy mouths that won’t want us around. Might be ya have a tough time with weeks of talking to get them to move.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] She doesn’t try to hide the smirk at Kemp’s comments, as she was thinking the same thing. Other then that, however, she listens. When questioned, there’s a short shake of her head. She is Modi. Tell her what to fight and where and she will fight. Ask her to stratagize and she asks which direction to throw her claw, to bare her teeth.
Her pale gaze settles on her packmate, briefly. A moment’s communication, unheard by the others. You are alpha till Decker returns. It is your call. As a tribe we are stronger then any of the rest. As a pack, the same, though Hyde seems content to work on our defenses alone. I’d say take Lachlan, and perhaps the Gnawer girl you are friends with, her pack, and we see what can be done. We are not part of the Sept, but we cannot stand by and watch a sacred place fall, even if we do not answer to them.
A slight smirk. And we can mobilize faster, with less bitchery and planning sessions.
[Bai Chou] “…tell you what….I’ll give them the intel…on say something going on with the Wyrm in those areas…have them focus on that…meanwhile…me and the Eagles and your group mostly…try and tackle the Weaver here. That way…we get this shit done while they squabble over the lesser evil at current.”
[Lachlan Skollson] He waits in silence, looking at Kemp and Annemarie to see what they had to say.
[Kemp Oates] “What Gnawer girl?”
While AM spoke across the link, Kemp’s gaze went straight to her, brows furrowing. and he spoke outloud.
“Ain’t gonna stand down from nothing. And ya fuckin know I ain’t gonna let the Caern fall over politics.”
Looking back to Bai and Lachlan.
“Me the Eagles and what group?”
[Bai Chou] “…I think he means Danny…if she’s still in the city. We aren’t letting the caern fall..just playin’ trick fuck so to speak. Its the only way to get this done without them getting involved and having the whole sept politics step into it. Besides…I’m sure the Tiberion’s Shadow would jump at the fucking chance to tangle with the Wyrm again while we focus at the problem at hand. Meanwhile…I’m gonna go find and speak with an elder spirit of the city if I can find it.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] A brow arches, slight. The one who speaks as a ragabash, but is a halfmoon. Also on outs with the Sept from what I have heard told. Danny, yes.
But to the rest, she nods. It is as she expected. They are Eagles, they will fight. Politics be damned.
[Lachlan Skollson] “Danny?”
He asks, looking between the two Eagles in some confusion. His brows furrow in thought as he considers something, he looks back over at Bai Chou. “Ye goin’ tae look fer tha City Father?”
His eyes flick back over to Kemp and Annemarie, “Eagles, Me, Bai, whomever tha fuck we can rustle up tae make tha run. Don’t care if’n we’re doin’ Guerilla war tactics on tha Weaver. Jus’ long we do something.”
[Bai Chou] He nods, rising.
“Alright…well…make your plans…make your deals…whatever you can to get this going. But meanwhile…I have to go find Chicagoan…which won’t be fun.”
He pauses, staring at the Get…almost curious to how one of their kind knew anything about City Fathers…there were some who had no clue of them…maybe Lachlan was more an urban wolf then he thought. He then gave a slight nod to them before starting to make his way out of the alley.
[Kemp Oates] “I ain’t so sure the Tribs will want to mess with us on anything. Not with what happened at the Moot. Ya might have to take them with you Bai.”
Frownng still as he sorted it out.
“I got something I gotta do umbral side, downtown. Sure as shit gonna spot this shit when I do it. So, I’ll letcha know what I find.”
[Lachlan Skollson] There was much Lachlan knew that he just didn’t let on. He coughs, down at the Chinaman as he begins to make his exit. “I’ll be in touch. I should go find Danny and talk wi’er.”
He looks back at Kemp, lifting an eyebrow, “Yer not goin’ tae moon tha city are ye?”
[Bai Chou] “Alright…you guys know where to find me.”
He nods to them all again and keeps on walking.
[Susie Siddle] She ate her noodles in silence, watching the other tourists and locals alike. it was always intersting to imagine little stories about their lives. Th oldr woman going into the herabl shop with furtive look behind her, she must be looking for either a cream to make her look younger or a love potion so her husband will stop sleeping with his secretary. The young man walking with an exaggrated swagger and the cloths straight out of a hiphop video, probably hoping to get in with the local gang. She didn’t know what to think of the group just inside the alley. A local, walking with a limp and the other three, the tall young man, lean as a knife edge and probably as hard, the shorter man, troubled carrying a great weight on his shoulders despite th easy grin and the silent woman, beautiful, sad and untouchable. She looked away and tossed the empty noodle container in the trash bin, resettling her bags over each arm.
[AnneMarie Hoch] She arches that brow at kemp, slight. Need backup?
[Kemp Oates] “Do what?”
He blinked to Lachlan, frowning slightly.
“I mooned alot, but not sure whatcha talking about now.”
[Kemp Oates] His attention slid to his packmate with a slow growing smile.
“Well, now that’s right nice of ya to offer. I might, if it don’t piss off the damned spirit. Then again, I got a better chance of sneaking in and out than most do. Let me think on it, but I appreciate the offer.”
[Kemp Oates] ((Sorry had company turn up, playing catch up now.))
[Lachlan Skollson] “Ye said ye had something tae do in tha umbra downtown…” he waves his hands in the air, brushing it off, “Never mind. I think we’re done ‘ere since Bai left. Ye up tae takin’ tha damn Drone out or not, we can toss a group together jus’ fer that purpose. Let tha fuckers at tha caern deal wi’ tha wyrm.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] She smirks, slightly. He knows damn well she’s almost as good at sneaking as he is, even if her’s is fetish based, rather then a gift. But a slight nod is the only true reply. He’ll call if he wishes her to join. Otherwise, it’s patrol as normal.
[Kemp Oates] (( I have to check and see when he can do it and if he lets me bring someone))
to AnneMarie Hoch
[AnneMarie Hoch] (No worries, either way. *g* She’s just doin as she does. *g*)
to Kemp Oates
[Kemp Oates] Hell, he might need backup.
to AnneMarie Hoch
[AnneMarie Hoch] *LOL*
to Kemp Oates
[Kemp Oates] “Sure, I’m game and I still don’t get the Mooning thing. Yeah, I gotta go downtown, fill a promise, debt to a spirit. Bird lost his shiny.”
Muttering with a drag of his hand through his hair.
“And yeah, I’m Fenrir, course I’m up for a fight. Just like Anne here. Though she don’t like to be called Anne. ”
[Lachlan Skollson] “Does Annemarie want tae come along or ye want me tae see if Danny and her boy are up fer some fun?”
[Kemp Oates] He cut a look to AM, lifting his brow.
“Well? She can’t talk but she can hear ya Lacky.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] She shoots a glare at Kemp, even as he self corrects. She knows he does it just to needle her. Just as she casually nudges his shoulder with hers as she straightens from the wall. Not hard, just enough to knock him back a step. Even as a grin briefly gives birth across her lips – gone as soon as it arrives.
She reaches into a pocket, pulls out a card with a number on it and hands it to Lachlan. Totem phone to Kemp. I’ve patrols to do unless you’ve need of me. If you do, call. Tell Lachlan to txt me at that number should he need me as well.
[Lachlan Skollson] Lachlan reaches out for the card, turning it over in his hands as he looks up at the taller woman. He mutters slightly under his breath, “Is there loike a growth hormone that comes wi’ yer pack when ye sign up tae fly under Eagle, or is it jus’ coicidence ye’re all over six fucking feet tall! Even yer bloody kin are.”
[Kemp Oates] He snickered. Taller than AM, he found it amusing how both females constantly bumped or hit him.
“Loves to touch me too. See?”
Wiggling his brows.
“She said, call her at that number of ya need her. She’s good in bed and quiet too.”
[Lachlan Skollson] He doesn’t make a comment on the bed part, just sort of looks AM up and down, perhaps with some thought and shakes his head. “She’s not me type.” waving a hand in the air as he tucks the card into his pocket.
[AnneMarie Hoch] Touch him. She’s gonna punch him next – at least she would if she weren’t in such a good mood. Or something. Instead, she just rolls her eyes. Because of course, Kemp would know how she is in bed.
And she’s only over 6 foot tall because of her boots. Though, they are only 2 inches high. A silent scoff as Lachlan looks her over. Like he’s mine? he thinks too much of himself, that one. amused.
[Kemp Oates] “Heh, I know. Buy a cow is.”
Snickered with a serious note added.
“So, you gonna find Danny or what? When ya up for this shit?”
[Kemp Oates] That got a laugh from him. Barked out as he told Lacky what was said.
“She said, you have too many callouses on your dick to feel a good thing when it rides ya. Cause ya wack off in front of the mirror while moaning your own name.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] …interesting translation. And by the grin that reappears, however briefly, one that amuses her.
[Lachlan Skollson] “Aye, I’ll go find Danny, ‘efore she leaves tha bloody city. Tha girl’s been sayin’ she’s goin’ tae tuck tail and run home. Think I’ll try tae persuade her not tae leave, despite her beef… I’ll get wi’ her and then i’ll drop a message back wi’ ye Eag–” Lachlan blinks, lifting an eyebrow at he simply stares at Kemp, and shakes his head.
“Yer so full o’shite yer eyes are brown, Kempikins. ‘Sides I only got eyes fer yer arse remember?”
[Kemp Oates] “I think you’re the one that was with Buy a Cow lastnight. Yep, puts whole new meaning to ribbed for your pleasure. Callouses do that.”
Rocking back and forth on his heels with a cocking of his head towards AM.
“What’s that? Oh, she says from what she can see of your package. Ya don’t need a cup to protect it, a eight teaspoon would be overkill.”
[AnneMarie Hoch] She brushes her fingers over the top of her short-shorn hair, and simply shakes her head. Kemp is on a roll now. And she? Has nothing to do with it. Hands tuck in her pockets, and she merely watches. Listens. Silent.
[Lachlan Skollson] “No wonder yer still a virgin, Kemp. A blow up doll as yer first fuck doesn’t count ye know.” He shakes his head, turning away from the pair to glance around the alley and begins to head off. “I’ll be in contact.” He almost said the word “touch” but that would have only given Kemp more ammunition.
[Kemp Oates] “Ya know, you can’t call yourself a non-virgin. Hands don’t count! I tried it. Believe me. Lotion man. Use more lotion. Those hands are gonna whittle what little ya got down to the nub.”
Snickering as he called to Lachlan’s back with a look to AM.
“Heh, he thinks he can win?”
[Lachlan Skollson] “That’s not what yer sister said last night.” He throws back over his shoulder, edging out of the alley. He waves to the pair and vanishes.
[AnneMarie Hoch] Clearly a misconception on his part. Amused, she shakes her head at her packmate, and turns to walk toward their Territory once again.
[Kemp Oates] “Damn, fuckme, when did I get a sister?”
Following AM with a scratch to his head.
[Lachlan Skollson] (Later you two. LOL)
to AnneMarie Hoch, Imogen Slaughter, Kemp Oates
[Kemp Oates] Thanks!
to AnneMarie Hoch, Imogen Slaughter, Lachlan Skollson
[AnneMarie Hoch] (*L* hasta.)
to Imogen Slaughter, Kemp Oates, Lachlan Skollson
[Kemp Oates] Heh, thank you
to AnneMarie Hoch
[AnneMarie Hoch] Anytime. *g*
to Kemp Oates